Why ya should vote no:
[LIST]

Europe is totally undemocratic. Truth is the only country that has even allowed a direct vote of the people on this treaty is Ireland. But the people voted no and your not allowed say no to these little dictators. VOTE NO!

The political fat cats, ICTU, the IFA, Macra and all the other so called 'social partners' who have their backsides firmly on the Euro gravey train are telling ya to say yes. Don't we know why? VOTE NO.

The yes crowd are telling lies. We are not voting on whether to leave Europe or stay in it.You don t want to be mistaken for a fool.? Vote NO

Your a farmer. They encouraged you to break yourself keeping builders afloat now your getting prices of 20 years ago.Farmers were promised a great european market etc etc. prosperity etc etc. What a joke. They want credit when things are going good but no
responsibility for it when we are all going broke. F**k them. Vote NO.

You lost your job. Ah but ya can't blame anyone of course just be good and do what your told. Yeah right ! VOTE NO

You lost lots of money lately on pensions etc (which are just a glorified pyramid scheme). O but remember the same social partner fellas used be telling ya to invest in them. Got enough of a kicking yet? Vote NO

Now the 'Social partner' fellas are lining up to back NAMA. You and your kids and grand kids will be paying to keep the lot of them in their gravy train for the next 50 years. You want to turn the other cheek? NOT ME. VOTE NO

Fair play Vincent. Your livening things up and no harm too!

I seen the Vote No in the new threads and I thought I bet you Vincent started that. Reason being Vincent you are the anti-establishment type.

Voting Yes is the only option. We need to get real.

by God! am I the only 'anti-establishment type' on the Macra forum best? Wow I'm chuffed! Me the standard bearer for anti-establishment in macra, and I an ol fella 36 years old?
And this is a young person's organization? Must ask my Granny does she think thats funny or is it only me?!

Oh and best please take a close look at the ballot before ya vote. You'll find theres a 'No' box ya can tick there too.

Why ya should vote YES:


Europe is democratic. The people voted no and now the government has come back with a list of guarantess on issues that the no side was using in the last referendum to scare people into voting no. VOTE YES!

The political organisations, ICTU, the IFA, MACRA and all the other social partners who's members interests they are trying to take care of are telling ya to say yes. Don't we know why? They care about us. VOTE YES.

The yes crowd are telling the truth. We are voting on whether we want Europe to progress and become stronger or not? Vote YES

Your a farmer. Without Europe we might be as badly off, but you might be milking your cows by hand intead of with a milking machine. . Vote YES.

You lost your job. Do you think Europe is going to have much interest in helping us if we vote NO again, the truth is tough! VOTE YES

Dont vote no because of the current mess our government caused. The rest of Europe shouldnt suffer because of our government incompetence. Vote YES.

Vincent says vote NO, thats as goo a reason as any that I know of to vote YES

People should vote when they are informed.
There is so much more literature that is more "people-friendly" this time around.
I am not urging people to vote either way but to vote after acquainting yourself with what it means!!
Make an informed decision!!

quote:

Originally posted by Paddy:
Europe is democratic. The people voted no and now the government has come back with a list of guarantess on issues that the no side was using in the last referendum to scare people into voting no. VOTE YES!

Hi Paddy I am yet to receive an propoganda, can you help educate me, by explaining wat issues have the government guarnteed on? and wat have to government guaranteed? should we even be believing the irish government's "guarntees" given the current state of affairs?

You are it's most extreme version on this forum in my brief experience.

In all seriousness. Vote No? excuse me but I live in Europe on planet Earth.

did anyone see the new tv ads by the referendum commission they as good as say if we vote yes then we will be nothings...the ad says not all decisions will be made by all countries but well get a say sometimes oh great lucky us...i voted no last time because i felt underinformed and i agree with apm i still feel underinformed...ive read the literature and ive listened to several peoples viewpoints and explanations but i feel a little like were being hoodwinked...like ireland is a bold child for excercising its democratic right and now were being lead down the path with apples that turn out to be poisonous...

quote:

Originally posted by Paddy:
Why ya should vote YES:


Europe is democratic. The people voted no and now the government has come back with a list of guarantess on issues that the no side was using in the last referendum to scare people into voting no. VOTE YES!

The Yes side are telling us that a No vote will result in Ireland being marginalised in the EU. If this is true it means that the EU is neither a democratic or an undemocratic organisation. Anti-democratic is a better description of that sort of behaviour.

Democracy is not just about asking people to choose, it is also about accepting that choice. Only an anti-democrat would allow you to make a choice and the punish you for making that choice.

just wondering why the government didnt come back with a guarntee that we the Irish citizens would get to vote on the next treaty..................... and all citizens in all European countries get to vote on the next european treaty we can read without being refered back to previous treaties paragraphs and sections

quote:

Originally posted by Paddy:
Why ya should vote YES:



The political organisations, ICTU, the IFA, MACRA and all the other social partners who's members interests they are trying to take care of are telling ya to say yes. Don't we know why? They care about us. VOTE YES.

For the last ten years social partnership has been little more than a means for the government to buy off the support of the various lobby groups. This was made possible by saddling an entire generation with a level of debt that they will spend the rest of their lives paying off. The entire process was dressed up as being in the nations best interests. In reality it was a form of institutionalised corruption.

There may be good reasons to vote yes but doing so on the say so of the social parasites is not one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Paddy:
Why ya should vote YES:

The yes crowd are telling the truth.

I wish I could be so sure about who was telling the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Paddy:
Why ya should vote YES:



You lost your job. Do you think Europe is going to have much interest in helping us if we vote NO again, the truth is tough! VOTE YES

Can't see any link between the EU and employment. When Ireland joined the EEC in 1973 unemployment was 7%. It started to rise shortly after and was at almost 10% in 1975, it fell again before taking off in the 1980s, reaching 18%. During the celtic tiger years it went down to 4% and is now at 12% and rising.

For most of the time we've been members of the EU the unemployment rate has been higher than when we first joined. So we can't say that Europe brought down our jobless figures.

quote:

Originally posted by xbox:
just wondering why the government didnt come back with a guarntee that we the Irish citizens would get to vote on the next treaty..................... and all citizens in all European countries get to vote on the next european treaty we can read without being refered back to previous treaties paragraphs and sections

I think a Europeanwide referendum that just required a simple majority would be a better way. Asking just one nation to decide for the entire union is not fair.

Well, I got the information on the Treaty and I would have to say in my opinion it is pushing for a yes vote. I didnt find it balanced...

I dont like that scare tactics that parties are using and I really think that people should get out there and research the treaty and make an informed decision...

I know that when we went to Brussels in January the European heads were disgusted with us and they kept bringing it up and referring back to it. But then again, if you are working in Europe - you are generally pro Europe...

Vote with knowledge, not with fear.

quote:

I think a Europeanwide referendum that just required a simple majority would be a better way. Asking just one nation to decide for the entire union is not fair.

it would be a fairer way of doin it as too many outside voices are interfeering in our referendum but don't we vote official into government in order to govern us to make the important decisions for us the people. it should be the politicans that we ellect that make this decision as they have done in all the other eu states.

can someone who has more knowledge on the lisbon treaty clear this up for me. is the treaty simple asking to grant the eu the power to streamline the decision making processes to cater for expandsion? where has all the other scare mongeringtactic for both yes and no come from

quote:

Originally posted by kittycatt:


Hi Paddy I am yet to receive an propoganda, can you help educate me, by explaining wat issues have the government guarnteed on? and wat have to government guaranteed? should we even be believing the irish government's "guarntees" given the current state of affairs?

Hi Kittycatt
The government has received Guarantees on the issues of
Neutrality.
Abortion.
Tax.
Keep our commissioner.

These were used by the no side during the last referendum to encourage people to vote against it. For more information on the Treaty you should check out www.lisbontreaty2009.ie

quote:

Originally posted by joe galaxy apprentice superhero:
The Yes side are telling us that a No vote will result in Ireland being marginalised in the EU. If this is true it means that the EU is neither a democratic or an undemocratic organisation. Anti-democratic is a better description of that sort of behaviour.

Democracy is not just about asking people to choose, it is also about accepting that choice. Only an anti-democrat would allow you to make a choice and the punish you for making that choice.

Very true Joe but the way of the world is unfair and Democracy does not always work as expected.
Better to have friends in Europe than not,